CC3 ND licence query
Summary
- There are 11 posts — by 6 authors — in this topic.
- Latest post made by Brent Wood at Feb 09 19:28 NZDT
Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to you." It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair use"? In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? Thanks, Brent Wood
IANAL but… I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK. Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
Glen -- Glen Barnes Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> wrote: > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to > you." > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair > use"? > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? > > > Thanks, > > Brent Wood > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > >
The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works together that are otherwise independent. The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not ... make any Adaptations..." [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>> wrote: > IANAL but… > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.
> > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question? > > Glen > > -- > Glen Barnes > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> wrote: > >> Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? >> >> I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. >> >> A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. >> >> I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. >> >> My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. >> >> So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? >> >> NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence >> allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your >> work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to >> you." >> >> It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). >> >> CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in >> this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair >> use"? >> >> >> >> In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a >> waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. >> >> >> Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. >> >> If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Brent Wood >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: >> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c >> >> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email >> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe >> >> Start your own free groups and site with >> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net >> >> Host your own online groups site with >> GroupServer http://groupserver.org >> >> > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org
So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an adaptation if you follow that chain of thought. Any comments on that by a learned person?
Glen -- Glen Barnes Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works > together that are otherwise independent. > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not > ... make any Adaptations..." > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode > > > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > IANAL but… > > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK. > > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question? > > > > Glen > > > > -- > > Glen Barnes > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> <email obscured>) wrote: > > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? > > > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. > > > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. > > > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. > > > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. > > > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? > > > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to > > > you." > > > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). > > > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair > > > use"? > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. > > > > > > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. > > > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Brent Wood > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0 > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > >
There is a provision in the licence for format shifting. However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where there the author really does care about how things are laid out. On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured>> wrote: > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an adaptation if you follow that chain of thought.
> > Any comments on that by a learned person? > > Glen > > -- > Glen Barnes > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > >> The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works >> means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do >> with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in >> a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works >> together that are otherwise independent. >> >> The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not >> ... make any Adaptations..." >> >> [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode >> >> >> >> On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: >> > IANAL but… >> > >> > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK. >> > >> > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question? >> > >> > Glen >> > >> > -- >> > Glen Barnes >> > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) >> > >> > >> > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> <email obscured>) wrote: >> > >> > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? >> > > >> > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. >> > > >> > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. >> > > >> > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. >> > > >> > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. >> > > >> > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? >> > > >> > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence >> > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your >> > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to >> > > you." >> > > >> > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). >> > > >> > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in >> > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair >> > > use"? >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a >> > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. >> > > >> > > >> > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. >> > > >> > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? >> > > >> > > >> > > Thanks, >> > > >> > > Brent Wood >> > > >> > > >> > > ----------------------------------------- >> > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: >> > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c >> > > >> > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email >> > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe >> > > >> > > Start your own free groups and site with >> > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net >> > > >> > > Host your own online groups site with >> > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----------------------------------------- >> > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: >> > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA >> > >> > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email >> > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe >> > >> > Start your own free groups and site with >> > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net >> > >> > Host your own online groups site with >> > GroupServer http://groupserver.org >> > >> >> >> ----------------------------------------- >> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: >> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0 >> >> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email >> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe >> >> Start your own free groups and site with >> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net >> >> Host your own online groups site with >> GroupServer http://groupserver.org >> >> > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/7ETNBmL730x0DenvNPXfPz > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org
So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting for geo data….
-- Glen Barnes Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > There is a provision in the licence for format shifting. > > However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with > data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where > there the author really does care about how things are laid out. > > On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an adaptation if you follow that chain of thought. > > > > Any comments on that by a learned person? > > > > Glen > > > > -- > > Glen Barnes > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > > > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works > > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do > > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in > > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works > > > together that are otherwise independent. > > > > > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not > > > ... make any Adaptations..." > > > > > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > > > IANAL but… > > > > > > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK. > > > > > > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question? > > > > > > > > Glen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Glen Barnes > > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> <email obscured>) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? > > > > > > > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. > > > > > > > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. > > > > > > > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. > > > > > > > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. > > > > > > > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? > > > > > > > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence > > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your > > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to > > > > > you." > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). > > > > > > > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in > > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair > > > > > use"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a > > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. > > > > > > > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Brent Wood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c > > > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0 > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/7ETNBmL730x0DenvNPXfPz > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6SyGYYGQ5h2nQ86OPtoAjO > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > >
It would be interesting to find out whether the dataset owner really intended the license to be this restrictive and/or whether they would be willing to change the license. Euan Cochrane Senior Advisor, Digital Continuity Archives New Zealand The Department of Internal Affairs Te Tari Taiwhenua Direct Dial: 04 894 6077 <email obscured> www.futureperfect.org.nz
-----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On Behalf Of Glen Barnes Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:26 p.m. To: <email obscured> Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting for geo data…. -- Glen Barnes Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > There is a provision in the licence for format shifting. > > However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with > data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where > there the author really does care about how things are laid out. > > On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an adaptation if you follow that chain of thought. > > > > Any comments on that by a learned person? > > > > Glen > > > > -- > > Glen Barnes > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > > > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works > > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do > > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in > > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works > > > together that are otherwise independent. > > > > > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not > > > ... make any Adaptations..." > > > > > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > > > IANAL but… > > > > > > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK. > > > > > > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question? > > > > > > > > Glen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Glen Barnes > > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> <email obscured>) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? > > > > > > > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. > > > > > > > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. > > > > > > > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. > > > > > > > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. > > > > > > > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? > > > > > > > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence > > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your > > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to > > > > > you." > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). > > > > > > > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in > > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair > > > > > use"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a > > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. > > > > > > > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Brent Wood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c > > > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0 > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/7ETNBmL730x0DenvNPXfPz > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6SyGYYGQ5h2nQ86OPtoAjO > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > ----------------------------------------- Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4D1KZ8cX6DP1JlFWJ628TW To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe Start your own free groups and site with OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net Host your own online groups site with GroupServer http://groupserver.org ==== CAUTION: This email message and any attachments contain information that may be confidential and may be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED. 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I confirm that the ND licence does not allow any derivatives to be made, essentially only allowing redistribution of a copyright work. And yes, if this is a dataset is owned by a government agency, I suggest you contact the owner and ask whether they are willing to release it for re-use under a BY licence in accordance with the open licensing principle in NZGOAL. Happy to help them work through this
Regards Keitha -----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On Behalf Of Euan Cochrane Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:47 p.m. To: <email obscured>' Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query It would be interesting to find out whether the dataset owner really intended the license to be this restrictive and/or whether they would be willing to change the license. Euan Cochrane Senior Advisor, Digital Continuity Archives New Zealand The Department of Internal Affairs Te Tari Taiwhenua Direct Dial: 04 894 6077 <email obscured> www.futureperfect.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On Behalf Of Glen Barnes Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:26 p.m. To: <email obscured> Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting for geo data.. -- Glen Barnes Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > There is a provision in the licence for format shifting. > > However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with > data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where > there the author really does care about how things are laid out. > > On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an adaptation if you follow that chain of thought. > > > > Any comments on that by a learned person? > > > > Glen > > > > -- > > Glen Barnes > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > > > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works > > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do > > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in > > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works > > > together that are otherwise independent. > > > > > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not > > > ... make any Adaptations..." > > > > > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > > > IANAL but. > > > > > > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK. > > > > > > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question? > > > > > > > > Glen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Glen Barnes > > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> <email obscured>) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? > > > > > > > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. > > > > > > > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. > > > > > > > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. > > > > > > > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. > > > > > > > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? > > > > > > > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence > > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your > > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to > > > > > you." > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). > > > > > > > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in > > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair > > > > > use"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a > > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. > > > > > > > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Brent Wood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c > > > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0 > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/7ETNBmL730x0DenvNPXfPz > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6SyGYYGQ5h2nQ86OPtoAjO > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > ----------------------------------------- Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4D1KZ8cX6DP1JlFWJ628TW To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe Start your own free groups and site with OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net Host your own online groups site with GroupServer http://groupserver.org ==== CAUTION: This email message and any attachments contain information that may be confidential and may be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED. 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Thanks guys, Useful discussion & feedback, for me anyway, as well as some non public responses from directly interested people. I think we agree that ND has a problem when it comes to data, & NZGOAL might include some words explaining these as a guideline for potential data providers. The next issue I think should be, if someone has used ND to release data, which results in the data effectively being unuseable, but available, then why was this licence chosen, and to support the reasons it was selected as well as to facilitate reuse, what sort of licence would CC4 need to include? (NM - No Misrepresentation ? create derivative works but only responsibly) As I understand it, the No Derivative works was used in this case to prevent misuse, which it does pretty effectively, by preventing any use at all. With respect to Glen's comment, if we had a political boundary & the application allowed someone to run a point-in-poly query to determine which polygon a point lay within, then ANY adaptation (derivative work) would be inappropriate, and providing an attribution: "According to the data provided by X, this point lies with the juristiction of Y" is technically correct, even though obviously not explaining the actual situation, descibed below, & is just what the licensors are trying to prevent by using ND. In this example, even loading 64bit precision data into a 32bit system (or vice versa) can shift coordinates sufficiently to make a close-to-the-border point change its enclosing polygon. Or from lying on a line to not. (1.99999999999999999999999 <> 2.0 - see at what point your system or calculator decides that enough decimal 9's equates to a whole number- it's not if, but when....) Reprojecting polygons can also do this. So what licence allows such reuse of data, takes account of these vagaries, & upholds the moral rights of a dataset creator from being held attributable for any inappropriate use/reuse/results? A similar test carried out against the unmodified data (by bug free & properly designed & implemented code) would be correct in the attribution, & probably not an issue for the licensor, even though subject to the same technical/precision issues in the code working with the data. This is exactly the issue that the UK Govt Open Licence sought to address by including a responsibility on the licencee to "not misuse or misrepresent the data". If anyone does, then they are in breach of the licence. I have raised this before as the sort of problem that will occur under NZGOAL/CC3, & now it has. Given who I work for, I'm not in a position to disclose who the agency is, if that is enough of a clue :-) The choice of licence in this case was not mine, but working through the issues around this seems to be up to me now anyway :-( Back on my hobby horse :-) another example of why licences designed for creative works are not always a good fit with content which is not a "creative work", data & source code being the two main domains I'm concerned with. So how do we fix it?
Cheers, Brent --- On Tue, 2/7/12, Keitha Booth <email obscured>> wrote: From: Keitha Booth <email obscured>> Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query To: <email obscured>" <email obscured>> Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 3:23 PM I confirm that the ND licence does not allow any derivatives to be made, essentially only allowing redistribution of a copyright work. And yes, if this is a dataset is owned by a government agency, I suggest you contact the owner and ask whether they are willing to release it for re-use under a BY licence in accordance with the open licensing principle in NZGOAL. Happy to help them work through this Regards Keitha -----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On Behalf Of Euan Cochrane Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:47 p.m. To: <email obscured>' Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query It would be interesting to find out whether the dataset owner really intended the license to be this restrictive and/or whether they would be willing to change the license. Euan Cochrane Senior Advisor, Digital Continuity Archives New Zealand The Department of Internal Affairs Te Tari Taiwhenua Direct Dial: 04 894 6077 <email obscured> www.futureperfect.org.nz -----Original Message----- From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On Behalf Of Glen Barnes Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:26 p.m. To: <email obscured> Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting for geo data.. -- Glen Barnes Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > There is a provision in the licence for format shifting. > > However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with > data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where > there the author really does care about how things are laid out. > > On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an adaptation if you follow that chain of thought. > > > > Any comments on that by a learned person? > > > > Glen > > > > -- > > Glen Barnes > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > > > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works > > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do > > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in > > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works > > > together that are otherwise independent. > > > > > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not > > > ... make any Adaptations..." > > > > > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured> <email obscured>)> wrote: > > > > IANAL but. > > > > > > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK. > > > > > > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question? > > > > > > > > Glen > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Glen Barnes > > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> <email obscured>) wrote: > > > > > > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for datasets? > > > > > > > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here. > > > > > > > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence. > > > > > > > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This will create png images representing these data. > > > > > > > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are all derivative works in some sense. > > > > > > > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the licence? > > > > > > > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence > > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your > > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to > > > > > you." > > > > > > > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be redistributed, but not re-used (or even used). > > > > > > > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in > > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair > > > > > use"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a > > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to actually use it. > > > > > > > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Brent Wood > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c > > > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA > > > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0 > > > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/7ETNBmL730x0DenvNPXfPz > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > > > Start your own free groups and site with > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > > > Host your own online groups site with > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6SyGYYGQ5h2nQ86OPtoAjO > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe > > Start your own free groups and site with > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net > > Host your own online groups site with > GroupServer http://groupserver.org > > ----------------------------------------- Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4D1KZ8cX6DP1JlFWJ628TW To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe Start your own free groups and site with OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net Host your own online groups site with GroupServer http://groupserver.org ==== CAUTION: This email message and any attachments contain information that may be confidential and may be LEGALLY PRIVILEGED. 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On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:28 PM, <email obscured>> wrote: > > Back on my hobby horse :-) another example of why licences designed for > creative works are not always a good fit with content which is not a > "creative work", data & source code being the two main domains I'm > concerned with. > For software there are many open-source licenses. People should never use CC licenses, and the CC docs explain that pretty clearly. In NZ CC works fine for datasets, with some caveats: - clarify attribution requirements & methods with examples and sample text for licensors to use. - don't use -NoDerivatives (as this thread has shown) - clarify and explain -NonCommercial so people understand what's being restricted (ie. very many uses that wouldn't normally be considered "commercial"). Maybe some sort of non-profit or small-time-commercial license? - have a simple convention around making requests for license exceptions, maybe with simple boilerplate agreements. (eg. waiving -NonCommercial, or modifying attribution methods). There are international issues around copyright around "databases", but those don't apply under NZ law - we're only affected by proxy. Those are all things that can be improved by CC4 surely - there don't seem to be any show-stoppers (and NZGOAL/etc seem to bear that out). Rob :)
Thanks Robert, Firstly, congrats on your work with GDAL & your committed :-) acceptance into the development community. GDAL is a critically important tool in both the Open Source & commercial GIS world. This is recognition of not just your contribution but also the quality of your contribution and high level of trust in your work. Well done!!! Wearing my NIWA hat, this time :-) It is safe to say that there is no CC licence (or set of licences) which we believe meets all our needs. We are now standardising our own licences until NZGOAL/CC have a licence which we believe is appropriate. I believe there has already been some dialogue with Koordinates with respect to NIWA data available there & applying new licences. I am keen to work with the appropriate NZGOAL/CC people to try to come up with a licence we find acceptable, but we have some concerns that several people feel strongly about that need to be addressed before that can happen. The licence needs to meet our needs, we are not prepared to sacrifice our requirements simply to use a NZGOAL endorsed or CC licence. We also believe our new licences will be consistent with the principles of NZGOAL, and will allow both NIWA & users of our data to have more trust in the integrity of the data, whether supplied directly by NIWA or via third parties. Something we do not believe is adequately covered under the existing CC3 licences. The compromise of CC-BY-ND is an acceptable one to NIWA, as a dataset licence, as any re-use under that licence requires written approval from NIWA to actually re use it, which allows us to add the conditions we require. As discussed in this thread. The alternative is a non-CC licence, which we are working on at present. Any licence which requires attribution for a dataset which has been unreasonably modified, and explicitly and implicitly relies only on existing moral rights legislation is unacceptable. I personally believe (NIWA hat off here:-), more agencies and individuals will come to the same opinion over time, as more datasets are released and potential issues are in fact realised. Cheers, Brent Wood
--- On Thu, 2/9/12, Robert Coup <email obscured>> wrote: From: Robert Coup <email obscured>> Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query To: <email obscured> Date: Thursday, February 9, 2012, 10:26 AM On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:28 PM, <email obscured>> wrote: > > Back on my hobby horse :-) another example of why licences designed for > creative works are not always a good fit with content which is not a > "creative work", data & source code being the two main domains I'm > concerned with. > For software there are many open-source licenses. People should never use CC licenses, and the CC docs explain that pretty clearly. In NZ CC works fine for datasets, with some caveats: - clarify attribution requirements & methods with examples and sample text for licensors to use. - don't use -NoDerivatives (as this thread has shown) - clarify and explain -NonCommercial so people understand what's being restricted (ie. very many uses that wouldn't normally be considered "commercial"). Maybe some sort of non-profit or small-time-commercial license? - have a simple convention around making requests for license exceptions, maybe with simple boilerplate agreements. (eg. waiving -NonCommercial, or modifying attribution methods). There are international issues around copyright around "databases", but those don't apply under NZ law - we're only affected by proxy. Those are all things that can be improved by CC4 surely - there don't seem to be any show-stoppers (and NZGOAL/etc seem to bear that out). Rob :) ----------------------------------------- Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas: http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6THnaLJiC2FysUj92RdThB To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe Start your own free groups and site with OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net Host your own online groups site with GroupServer http://groupserver.org
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