Posts in The Open Government Ninjas

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CC3 ND licence query From: Brent Wood Date: Feb 09 19:28 NZDT

Thanks Robert,

Firstly, congrats on your work with GDAL & your committed :-) acceptance into
the development community. GDAL is a critically important tool in both the Open
Source & commercial GIS world. This is recognition of not just your
contribution but also the quality of your contribution and high level of trust
in your work. Well done!!!


Wearing my NIWA hat, this time :-)

It is safe to say that there is no CC licence (or set of licences) which we
believe meets all our needs. We are now standardising our own licences until
NZGOAL/CC have a licence which we believe is appropriate.

I believe there has already been some dialogue with Koordinates with respect to
NIWA data available there & applying new licences.

I am keen to work with the appropriate NZGOAL/CC people to try to come up with
a licence we find acceptable, but we have some concerns that several people
feel strongly about that need to be addressed before that can happen. The
licence needs to meet our needs, we are not prepared to sacrifice our
requirements simply to use a NZGOAL endorsed or CC licence.

We also believe our new licences will be consistent with the principles of
NZGOAL, and will allow both NIWA & users of our data to have more trust in the
integrity of the data, whether supplied directly by NIWA or via third parties.
Something we do not believe is adequately covered under the existing CC3
licences.

The compromise of CC-BY-ND is an acceptable one to NIWA, as a dataset licence,
as any re-use under that licence requires written approval from NIWA to
actually re use it, which allows us to add the conditions we require. As
discussed in this thread. The alternative is a non-CC licence, which we are
working on at present.

Any licence which requires attribution for a dataset which has been
unreasonably modified, and explicitly and implicitly relies only on existing
moral rights legislation is unacceptable.


I personally believe (NIWA hat off here:-), more agencies and individuals will
come to the same opinion over time, as more datasets are released and potential
issues are in fact realised.


Cheers,

 Brent Wood

Rest of post


--- On Thu, 2/9/12, Robert Coup <email obscured>> wrote:

From: Robert Coup <email obscured>>
Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query
To: <email obscured>
Date: Thursday, February 9, 2012, 10:26 AM

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:28 PM, <email obscured>> wrote:

>
> Back on my hobby horse :-) another example of why licences designed for
> creative works are not always a good fit with content which is not a
> "creative work", data & source code being the two main domains I'm
> concerned with.
>

For software there are many open-source licenses. People should never use
CC licenses, and the CC docs explain that pretty clearly.

In NZ CC works fine for datasets, with some caveats:
 - clarify attribution requirements & methods with examples and sample text
for licensors to use.
 - don't use -NoDerivatives (as this thread has shown)
 - clarify and explain -NonCommercial so people understand what's being
restricted (ie. very many uses that wouldn't normally be considered
"commercial"). Maybe some sort of non-profit or small-time-commercial
license?
 - have a simple convention around making requests for license exceptions,
maybe with simple boilerplate agreements. (eg. waiving -NonCommercial, or
modifying attribution methods).

There are international issues around copyright around "databases", but
those don't apply under NZ law - we're only affected by proxy.

Those are all things that can be improved by CC4 surely - there don't seem
to be any show-stoppers (and NZGOAL/etc seem to bear that out).

Rob :)

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CC3 ND licence query From: Robert Coup Date: Feb 09 10:26 NZDT

On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 10:28 PM, <email obscured>> wrote:

>
> Back on my hobby horse :-) another example of why licences designed for
> creative works are not always a good fit with content which is not a
> "creative work", data & source code being the two main domains I'm
> concerned with.
>

For software there are many open-source licenses. People should never use
CC licenses, and the CC docs explain that pretty clearly.

In NZ CC works fine for datasets, with some caveats:
 - clarify attribution requirements & methods with examples and sample text
for licensors to use.
 - don't use -NoDerivatives (as this thread has shown)
 - clarify and explain -NonCommercial so people understand what's being
restricted (ie. very many uses that wouldn't normally be considered
"commercial"). Maybe some sort of non-profit or small-time-commercial
license?
 - have a simple convention around making requests for license exceptions,
maybe with simple boilerplate agreements. (eg. waiving -NonCommercial, or
modifying attribution methods).

There are international issues around copyright around "databases", but
those don't apply under NZ law - we're only affected by proxy.

Those are all things that can be improved by CC4 surely - there don't seem
to be any show-stoppers (and NZGOAL/etc seem to bear that out).

Rob :)

CC3 ND licence query From: Brent Wood Date: Feb 07 22:28 NZDT

Thanks guys,

Useful discussion & feedback, for me anyway, as well as some non public
responses from directly interested people. I think we agree that ND has a
problem when it comes to data, & NZGOAL might include some words explaining
these as a guideline for potential data providers.


The next issue I think should be, if someone has used ND to release data, which
results in the data effectively being unuseable, but available, then why was
this licence chosen, and to support the reasons it was selected as well as to
facilitate reuse, what sort of licence would CC4 need to include?

(NM - No Misrepresentation ? create derivative works but only responsibly)

As I understand it, the No Derivative works was used in this case to prevent
misuse, which it does pretty effectively, by preventing any use at all.

With respect to Glen's comment, if we had a political boundary & the
application allowed someone to run a point-in-poly query to determine which
polygon a point lay within, then ANY adaptation (derivative work) would be
inappropriate, and providing an attribution: "According to the data provided by
X, this point lies with the juristiction of Y" is technically correct, even
though obviously not explaining the actual situation, descibed below, & is just
what the licensors are trying to prevent by using ND.

In this example, even loading 64bit precision data into a 32bit system (or vice
versa) can shift coordinates sufficiently to make a close-to-the-border point
change its enclosing polygon. Or from lying on a line to not.
(1.99999999999999999999999 <> 2.0 - see at what point your system or calculator
decides that enough decimal 9's equates to a whole number- it's not if, but
when....) Reprojecting polygons can also do this. So what licence allows such
reuse of data, takes account of these vagaries, & upholds the moral rights of a
dataset creator from being held attributable for any inappropriate
use/reuse/results?

A similar test carried out against the unmodified data (by bug free & properly
designed & implemented code) would be correct in the attribution, & probably
not an issue for the licensor, even though subject to the same
technical/precision issues in the code working with the data.

This is exactly the issue that the UK Govt Open Licence sought to address by
including a responsibility on the licencee to "not misuse or misrepresent the
data". If anyone does, then they are in breach of the licence.


I have raised this before as the sort of problem that will occur under
NZGOAL/CC3, & now it has. Given who I work for, I'm not in a position to
disclose who the agency is, if that is enough of a clue :-) The choice of
licence in this case was not mine, but working through the issues around this
seems to be up to me now anyway :-(

Back on my hobby horse :-) another example of why licences designed for
creative works are not always a good fit with content which is not a "creative
work", data & source code being the two main domains I'm concerned with.


So how do we fix it?

Rest of post

Cheers,

 Brent


--- On Tue, 2/7/12, Keitha Booth <email obscured>> wrote:

From: Keitha Booth <email obscured>>
Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query
To: <email obscured>" <email obscured>>
Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2012, 3:23 PM

I confirm that the ND licence does not allow any derivatives to be made,
essentially only allowing redistribution of a copyright work.

And yes, if this is a dataset is owned by a government agency, I suggest you
contact the owner and ask whether they are willing to release it for re-use
under a BY licence in accordance with the open licensing principle in NZGOAL.

Happy to help them work through this

Regards

Keitha

-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On
Behalf Of Euan Cochrane
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:47 p.m.
To: <email obscured>'
Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query

It would be interesting to find out whether the dataset owner really intended
the license to be this restrictive and/or whether they would be willing to
change the license.


Euan Cochrane
Senior Advisor, Digital Continuity
Archives New Zealand

The Department of Internal Affairs Te Tari Taiwhenua

Direct Dial: 04 894 6077
<email obscured>
www.futureperfect.org.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On
Behalf Of Glen Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:26 p.m.
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query

So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting
for geo data..


--
Glen Barnes
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)


On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

> There is a provision in the licence for format shifting.
>
> However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with
> data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where
> there the author really does care about how things are laid out.
>
> On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is
licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type
of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an
adaptation if you follow that chain of thought.
> >
> > Any comments on that by a learned person?
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > --
> > Glen Barnes
> > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works
> > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do
> > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in
> > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works
> > > together that are otherwise independent.
> > >
> > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not
> > > ... make any Adaptations..."
> > >
> > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > > > IANAL but.
> > > >
> > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any
of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a
boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but
adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
> > > >
> > > > Glen
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Glen Barnes
> > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured>
<email obscured>) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of
CC3-BY-ND for datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
> > > > >
> > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved
NZGOAL licence.
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create
scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out,
and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
> > > > >
> > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived"
product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of
these data are all derivative works in some sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data
will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product
contravene the licence?
> > > > >
> > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
> > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
> > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit
to
> > > > > you."
> > > > >
> > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
> > > > >
> > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use"
in
> > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map
application a "fair
> > > > > use"?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must
negotiate a
> > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation,
the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both
NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to
datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
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CC3 ND licence query From: kbooth Date: Feb 07 15:23 NZDT

I confirm that the ND licence does not allow any derivatives to be made,
essentially only allowing redistribution of a copyright work.

And yes, if this is a dataset is owned by a government agency, I suggest you
contact the owner and ask whether they are willing to release it for re-use
under a BY licence in accordance with the open licensing principle in NZGOAL.

Happy to help them work through this

Rest of post

Regards

Keitha

-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On
Behalf Of Euan Cochrane
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:47 p.m.
To: <email obscured>'
Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query

It would be interesting to find out whether the dataset owner really intended
the license to be this restrictive and/or whether they would be willing to
change the license.


Euan Cochrane
Senior Advisor, Digital Continuity
Archives New Zealand

The Department of Internal Affairs Te Tari Taiwhenua

Direct Dial:  04 894 6077
<email obscured>
www.futureperfect.org.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On
Behalf Of Glen Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:26 p.m.
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query

So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting
for geo data..


--
Glen Barnes
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)


On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

> There is a provision in the licence for format shifting.
>
> However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with
> data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where
> there the author really does care about how things are laid out.
>
> On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is
licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type
of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an
adaptation if you follow that chain of thought.
> >
> > Any comments on that by a learned person?
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > --
> > Glen Barnes
> > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works
> > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do
> > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in
> > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works
> > > together that are otherwise independent.
> > >
> > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not
> > > ... make any Adaptations..."
> > >
> > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > > > IANAL but.
> > > >
> > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any
of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a
boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but
adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
> > > >
> > > > Glen
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Glen Barnes
> > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured>
<email obscured>) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of
CC3-BY-ND for datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
> > > > >
> > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved
NZGOAL licence.
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create
scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out,
and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
> > > > >
> > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived"
product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of
these data are all derivative works in some sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data
will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product
contravene the licence?
> > > > >
> > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
> > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
> > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit
to
> > > > > you."
> > > > >
> > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
> > > > >
> > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use"
in
> > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map
application a "fair
> > > > > use"?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must
negotiate a
> > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation,
the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both
NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to
datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
> > > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------------------------
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CC3 ND licence query From: Euan Cochrane Date: Feb 07 14:47 NZDT

It would be interesting to find out whether the dataset owner really intended
the license to be this restrictive and/or whether they would be willing to
change the license.


Euan Cochrane
Senior Advisor, Digital Continuity
Archives New Zealand

The Department of Internal Affairs Te Tari Taiwhenua

Direct Dial:  04 894 6077
<email obscured>
www.futureperfect.org.nz

Rest of post


-----Original Message-----
From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On
Behalf Of Glen Barnes
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2012 2:26 p.m.
To: <email obscured>
Subject: Re: [ninjas] CC3 ND licence query

So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting
for geo data….


--
Glen Barnes
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)


On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

> There is a provision in the licence for format shifting.
>
> However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with
> data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where
> there the author really does care about how things are laid out.
>
> On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is
licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type
of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an
adaptation if you follow that chain of thought.
> >
> > Any comments on that by a learned person?
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > --
> > Glen Barnes
> > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works
> > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do
> > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in
> > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works
> > > together that are otherwise independent.
> > >
> > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not
> > > ... make any Adaptations..."
> > >
> > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > > > IANAL but…
> > > >
> > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any
of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a
boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but
adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
> > > >
> > > > Glen
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Glen Barnes
> > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured>
<email obscured>) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of
CC3-BY-ND for datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
> > > > >
> > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved
NZGOAL licence.
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create
scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out,
and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
> > > > >
> > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived"
product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of
these data are all derivative works in some sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data
will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product
contravene the licence?
> > > > >
> > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
> > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
> > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit
to
> > > > > you."
> > > > >
> > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
> > > > >
> > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use"
in
> > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map
application a "fair
> > > > > use"?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must
negotiate a
> > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation,
the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both
NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to
datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
> > > > >
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CC3 ND licence query From: Glen Barnes Date: Feb 07 14:26 NZDT

So transforming boundaries to other projections and scaling is format shifting
for geo data….

Rest of post

--
Glen Barnes
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)


On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 2:13 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

> There is a provision in the licence for format shifting.
>
> However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with
> data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where
> there the author really does care about how things are laid out.
>
> On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is
licensed as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type
of CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an
adaptation if you follow that chain of thought.
> >
> > Any comments on that by a learned person?
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > --
> > Glen Barnes
> > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
> >
> > > The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works
> > > means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do
> > > with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in
> > > a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works
> > > together that are otherwise independent.
> > >
> > > The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not
> > > ... make any Adaptations..."
> > >
> > > [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > > > IANAL but…
> > > >
> > > > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any
of the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a
boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but
adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
> > > >
> > > > Glen
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Glen Barnes
> > > > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured>
<email obscured>) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of
CC3-BY-ND for datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
> > > > >
> > > > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved
NZGOAL licence.
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create
scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out,
and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
> > > > >
> > > > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived"
product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of
these data are all derivative works in some sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data
will create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product
contravene the licence?
> > > > >
> > > > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
> > > > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
> > > > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit
to
> > > > > you."
> > > > >
> > > > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
> > > > >
> > > > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use"
in
> > > > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map
application a "fair
> > > > > use"?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must
negotiate a
> > > > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation,
the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both
NZGOAL & CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to
datasets?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Wood
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------
> > > > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > > > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
> > > > >
> > > > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------------------------
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CC3 ND licence query From: Tim McNamara Date: Feb 07 14:13 NZDT

There is a provision in the licence for format shifting.

However, ND is basically useless for copyrighted works formed with
data. It is somewhat useful for things like essays and poems where
there the author really does care about how things are laid out.

On 7 February 2012 14:00, Glen Barnes <email obscured>> wrote:
> So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed
as CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of
CC-BY-ND data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an
adaptation if you follow that chain of thought.

Rest of post

>
> Any comments on that by a learned person?
>
> Glen
>
> --
> Glen Barnes
> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
>
>
> On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>> The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works
>> means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do
>> with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in
>> a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works
>> together that are otherwise independent.
>>
>> The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not
>> ... make any Adaptations..."
>>
>> [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
>> > IANAL but…
>> >
>> > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of
the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a
boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but
adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.
>> >
>> > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
>> >
>> > Glen
>> >
>> > --
>> > Glen Barnes
>> > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
>> >
>> >
>> > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured>
<email obscured>) wrote:
>> >
>> > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND
for datasets?
>> > >
>> > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
>> > >
>> > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL
licence.
>> > >
>> > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create
scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out,
and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
>> > >
>> > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived"
product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of
these data are all derivative works in some sense.
>> > >
>> > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will
create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product
contravene the licence?
>> > >
>> > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
>> > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
>> > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to
>> > > you."
>> > >
>> > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
>> > >
>> > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in
>> > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application
a "fair
>> > > use"?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a
>> > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation,
the only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
>> > >
>> > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL
& CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Brent Wood
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -----------------------------------------
>> > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
>> > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
>> > >
>> > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
>> > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>> > >
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>> > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>> > >
>> > > Host your own online groups site with
>> > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------
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>> > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA
>> >
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>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
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>> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0
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>
>
>
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CC3 ND licence query From: Glen Barnes Date: Feb 07 14:00 NZDT

So basically you cannot do _anything_ with geo spatial data that is licensed as
CC-BY_ND? In fact you can't do pretty much anything with any type of CC-BY-ND
data - Simply uploading a CC-BY-ND csv file to Google docs is an adaptation if
you follow that chain of thought.

Any comments on that by a learned person?

Rest of post

Glen

--
Glen Barnes
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)


On Tuesday, 7 February 2012 at 1:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:

> The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works
> means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do
> with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in
> a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works
> together that are otherwise independent.
>
> The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not
> ... make any Adaptations..."
>
> [0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode
>
>
>
> On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>
<email obscured>)> wrote:
> > IANAL but…
> >
> > I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of
the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a
boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but
adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.
> >
> > Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
> >
> > Glen
> >
> > --
> > Glen Barnes
> > Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
> >
> >
> > On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured>
<email obscured>) wrote:
> >
> > > Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND
for datasets?
> > >
> > > I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
> > >
> > > A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL
licence.
> > >
> > > I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create
scale dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out,
and increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
> > >
> > > My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived"
product is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of
these data are all derivative works in some sense.
> > >
> > > So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will
create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product
contravene the licence?
> > >
> > > NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
> > > allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
> > > work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to
> > > you."
> > >
> > > It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
> > >
> > > CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in
> > > this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a
"fair
> > > use"?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a
> > > waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
> > >
> > >
> > > Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the
only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
> > >
> > > If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL
& CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets?
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Brent Wood
> > >
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------
> > > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
> > >
> > > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> > > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
> > >
> > > Start your own free groups and site with
> > > OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
> > >
> > > Host your own online groups site with
> > > GroupServer http://groupserver.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------
> > Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> > http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA
> >
> > To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> > <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/4O31CO4bYNBHBfOSfO9wX0
>
> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>
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>
>

CC3 ND licence query From: Tim McNamara Date: Feb 07 13:48 NZDT

The licence is far more restrictive than this. No derivative works
means no derivative works. The only things that you're permitted to do
with the data is redistribute it in its original form or include it in
a collection. A collection is defined as assembling unaltered works
together that are otherwise independent.

The legal text[0] is very readable and is very explicit: "You must not
... make any Adaptations..."

[0] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/nz/legalcode

On 7 February 2012 12:21, Glen Barnes <email obscured>> wrote:
> IANAL but…
>
> I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of
the underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a
boundary or simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but
adding new data points and changing boundaries would not be OK.

Rest of post

>
> Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?
>
> Glen
>
> --
> Glen Barnes
> Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)
>
>
> On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> wrote:
>
>> Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for
datasets?
>>
>> I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
>>
>> A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL
licence.
>>
>> I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale
dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and
increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
>>
>> My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product
is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data
are all derivative works in some sense.
>>
>> So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will
create some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product
contravene the licence?
>>
>> NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
>> allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
>> work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to
>> you."
>>
>> It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
>>
>> CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in
>> this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a
"fair
>> use"?
>>
>>
>>
>> In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a
>> waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
>>
>>
>> Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the
only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
>>
>> If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL &
CC docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brent Wood
>>
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
>> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
>>
>> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
>> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>>
>> Start your own free groups and site with
>> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>>
>> Host your own online groups site with
>> GroupServer http://groupserver.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/6vrgoj31xUz35pW1IsknKA
>
> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>
> Start your own free groups and site with
> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>
> Host your own online groups site with
> GroupServer http://groupserver.org

CC3 ND licence query From: Glen Barnes Date: Feb 07 12:21 NZDT

IANAL but…

I would think it would need to pass one key test - Have you changed any of the
underlying data to change its meaning? For example simply scaling a boundary or
simplifying a border to make it web mappable should be OK but adding new data
points and changing boundaries would not be OK.

Do you have a more concrete example of the dataset in question?

Rest of post

Glen

--
Glen Barnes
Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig)


On Monday, 6 February 2012 at 10:59 AM, <email obscured> wrote:

> Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for
datasets?
>
> I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.
>
> A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL
licence.
>
> I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale
dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and
increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.
>
> My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product
is. The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data
are all derivative works in some sense.
>
> So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create
some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the
licence?
>
> NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
> allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
> work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to
> you."
>
> It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).
>
> CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in
> this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a
"fair
> use"?
>
>
>
> In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a
> waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.
>
>
> Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the
only point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is
download it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to
assess fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence
holder to actually use it.
>
> If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC
docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brent Wood
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3vc7ZiyAHwBh0VbBK9W18c
>
> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>
> Start your own free groups and site with
> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>
> Host your own online groups site with
> GroupServer http://groupserver.org
>
>

Future Perfect 2012 Early Bird registration closes on Sunday From: Euan Cochrane Date: Feb 07 09:19 NZDT

This may be of interest for some in this group:


Click here to register now <http://bit.ly/nMkguz> for the Future Perfect
Conference 2012; act now and save $100 on standard registration costs.

The conference programme is also available online now <http://bit.ly/uVsvDl>.



The theme of Future Perfect 2012 - Digital Preservation by Design - seeks to
stimulate discussion about how, when and why influencing the design of systems
can support digital preservation and ultimately ensure that today's information
is available tomorrow.  Future Perfect 2012 will be a two day conference
featuring many exciting international and New Zealand speakers.



Plenary and International Speakers

*         Jeff Rothenberg
<http://archives.govt.nz/advice/government-digital-archive-programme/future-perfect-2012-digital-preservation-design/biograph#RothenbergBio>
(formerly of RAND corporation)

*         David Pearson
<http://archives.govt.nz/advice/government-digital-archive-programme/future-perfect-2012-digital-preservation-design/biograph#PearsonBio>,
National Library of Australia

*         Kris Carpenter Nagulescu, The Internet Archive

*         Ross Spencer
<http://archives.govt.nz/advice/government-digital-archive-programme/future-perfect-2012-digital-preservation-design/biograph#SpencerBio>,
The National Archives (UK)

*         Shaun Hendy
<http://archives.govt.nz/advice/government-digital-archive-programme/future-perfect-2012-digital-preservation-design/biograph#HendyBio>,
The MacDiarmid Institute



Sponsorship opportunities for businesses and organisations

There are still some great sponsorship opportunities available.  Please see the
website <http://bit.ly/qJ6sky> for full details of the packages and to complete
the application form.



Thank you for your interest, we look forward to seeing you in March! If you
have any questions about this conference please contact:

Mick Crouch
Convenor
Future Perfect Conference 2012 Organising Team

Or visit our website at www.futureperfect.org.nz
<http://www.futureperfect.org.nz/>

Rest of post



====
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CC3 ND licence query From: Brent Wood Date: Feb 06 10:59 NZDT

Is anyone here able to comment authoritatively on the use of CC3-BY-ND for
datasets?

I have come across a real situation which I think worth raising here.

A NZ dataset is available under CC3-BY-ND, which is an approved NZGOAL licence.

I want to use this in a web mapping site. To do this I need to create scale
dependent layers of these data, displaying only a subset when zoomed out, and
increasing the level of detail as the user zooms in. I also want to provide
these data to my web mapping application using the OGC WMS web service. This
will create png images representing these data.

My concern is regarding the lack of clarity about what a "derived" product is.
The reduced content subsets for zoom layers, the png (image) of these data are
all derivative works in some sense.

So, under NZ law, just what is a derived work? Any re-use of data will create
some sort of derived work, so at what point does such a product contravene the
licence?

NZGOAL summarises this licence as "This licence
allows for redistribution, commercial and noncommercial use of your
work, as long as it is passed along unchanged and whole, with credit to
you."

It appears to me that this licence effectively allows such data to be
redistributed, but not re-used (or even used).

CC says such licences do not restrict "fair use". What is "fair use" in
this context? Is the described use of the data in a web map application a "fair
use"?



In order to create a derivative work, it seems the user must negotiate a
 waiver, or a custom licence, with the agency releasing the data.


Am I misunderstanding something? If I'm correct in my interpretation, the only
point in releasing data under such a licence, as all anyone can do is download
it & on-supply it with due attribution, is to let people see it, to assess
fitness for purpose, & then negotiate a new licence with the licence holder to
actually use it.

If this is the case, then could this not be made explicit in both NZGOAL & CC
docs, that this is the effect of this licence as it pertains to datasets?


Thanks,

 Brent Wood

Chch earthquakes generated 660 GB of GIS data that everyone needed now - how NZ te From: Nick Jones Date: Feb 01 14:06 NZDT

Tim - happy to chat about the setup. The service is based on a distributed file
system called iRODS[1] and we were using the parallel streaming / pipelining
features within GridFTP[2]. (for those interested in the tech, this is the
technology behind the SaaS platform for transferring large scientific datasets,
GlobusOnline[3]. We're currently in planning for a transition and expansion of
this service, into NeSI[4], and with additional research institutions
connected, heading towards a national distributed file system for research.

There was an issue at the start as there were breakages in the KAREN network
due to the quake and a hub in Christchurch feeding some of our research
institutions with campuses elsewhere in NZ. As Gavin notes, TB drives were used
initially. Once we had this resolved, we were routinely distributing data
between multiple parties across the country, between Auckland, Napier,
Palmerston North, and Christchurch. This routine sharing and processing went on
for many weeks as different data sets were acquired and processed.

re comments on licensing, this was a difficult one to navigate. As a service
provider, we provided the security that was initially required, as defined by
the license for the original satellite image data negotiated by the involved
agencies. In the end licensing was resolved and the data has been available
since around March 2011[5].

cheers, Nick

[1] http://www.irods.org
[2] http://www.globus.org/toolkit/data/gridftp/
[3] https://www.globusonline.org/
[4] http://www.nesi.org.nz
[5] http://df.auckland.ac.nz/BeSTGRID/home/NZDF/

Interesting national resource, shame we don't have something similar... From: Glen Barnes Date: Jan 31 13:33 NZDT

The goal of the first data.govt.nz was to get things out there and working
using an MVP/JFDI approach. This worked well to start with but I guess
somewhere along the lines things stagnated. Maybe with a renewed focus on this
there can be some resources put in place to start building a constantly
evolving data catalogue? In my mind whatever we build needs to  cover 2 use
cases - People who are browsing and don't know much about data and those who
need the hardcore. They shouldn't be mutually exclusive but it will take some
pretty talented UX and dev peeps to get it done.

I would be interested to find out what the mindset is in government to sharing
resources and building something decent on one of the open source catalogue
stacks.

Glen

On Sunday, 29 January 2012 at 2:48 PM, <email obscured> wrote:

> Perhaps DOC, MfE, MAF, CRI's, Regional Councils, etc., could collaborate on a
national resource such as this, rather than developing multiple limited focus
(sometimes overlapping focus) catalogues, which seems to be the current trend.
>
> http://www.the-eis.com/aboutus.php
>
> While it is certainly easier to focus & fund the development of small
bite-sized domains, these should form part of a cohesive national strategy &
system. A lack of focus on the overall national picture will lead the results
of small, domain specific efforts into limited value & obscurity. Much as
described in the recent data.govt.nz review.
>
> NZ should at least agree on a common vocabulary for such catalogues & systems
before going too much further... such as the GEMET list or the GCMD
vocabularies, etc., to try & ensure such systems will at least have some level
of interoperability.
>
> Someone with a national strategic role in geospatial data management could
perhaps provide some valuable leadership here. Hint :-)

Rest of post

>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brent Wood
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/1KvxE4X9qsPZgmYYeRh2Ch
>
> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>
> Start your own free groups and site with
> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>
> Host your own online groups site with
> GroupServer http://groupserver.org
>
>

Interesting national resource, shame we don't have something similar... From: jforne Date: Jan 31 12:30 NZDT

Thanks Brent
Good point. I agree, we need a way(s) of ensuring we're talking about the same
thing within and across domains. And controlled vocabularies seem to provide a
way of achieving this semantic interoperability.

However, in order for controlled vocabularies to be of more (maximum?) value -
it is appropriate that they are agreed across a variety of domains, including
the geospatial domain. Consequently, I propose that the (cross domain) Open
Government Data and Information Reuse Working Group is a more appropriate forum
for discussing/agreeing a controlled vocabulary for catalogues and systems
(rather than limiting to the Geospatial Steering committee or the geospatial
domain). I will raise this item with Keitha and Kevin to table with the Working
Group accordingly.

While controlled vocabularies are generally of interest to all data management
communities, New Zealand Geospatial Office (NZGO) has a particular interest in
the aspect of a controlled vocabulary that defines how we describe where things
are, namely a gazatteer. To this extent I propose that NZGO's role is to bring
all the parties with an interest in developing a gazatter service together. I
have discussed this with Wendy Shaw (Secretary, New Zealand Geographic Board
Ngā Pou Taunaha o Aotearoa) and Richard Fone (project manager, LINZ) and note
that LINZ is developing a gazatter service that we hope to be accessible
mid-2012. I am currently seeking a revised document describing the user
requirements and have been advised that I can email this to you shortly.

And in terms of the opportunity for interested parties, such as you, to get
involved in the development of the gazatter, Wendy/Richard agreed that it would
be good for you to participate during the review of the gazatter during the
pilot phase.

I trust this helps,
John.

Interesting national resource, shame we don't have something similar... From: Brent Wood Date: Jan 29 14:48 NZDT

Perhaps DOC, MfE, MAF, CRI's, Regional Councils, etc., could collaborate on a
national resource such as this, rather than developing multiple limited focus
(sometimes overlapping focus) catalogues, which seems to be the current trend.

http://www.the-eis.com/aboutus.php

While it is certainly easier to focus & fund the development of small
bite-sized domains, these should form part of a cohesive national strategy &
system. A lack of focus on the overall national picture will lead the results
of small, domain specific efforts into limited value & obscurity. Much as
described in the recent data.govt.nz review.

NZ should at least agree on a common vocabulary for such catalogues & systems
before going too much further... such as the GEMET list or the GCMD
vocabularies, etc., to try & ensure such systems will at least have some level
of interoperability.

Someone with a national strategic role in geospatial data management could
perhaps provide some valuable leadership here. Hint :-)


Cheers,

 Brent Wood

Looking for NZ government Open Data publishing standards/procedures From: Jeff Rothenberg Date: Jan 27 14:34 NZDT

Thanks!  I'll follow up on this soon.

Jeff


On Jan 26, 2012, at 12:33 PM, Alison Stringer wrote:

> Hi Jeff
>
> I work for the NZ Open Goverment Data and Information Secretariat. We are
currently preparing guidance and advice to assist NZ Public Sector agencies
release their high value, non-personal data for reuse.
>
> My colleague Keitha Booth and I are happy to discuss the New Zealand Open
Goverment Data and Information work programme. Please contact Keitha or on
[last name] [first initial] [at] linz.govt.nz
>
> Regards
> Alison Stringer
>
> PS: Happy New Year Ninjas! I'm working with Keitha 0.5 FTE this year. Looking
forward to working with you all.

Rest of post

> A
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/VpQ8d8bqa80Y5Ttz5v3N5
>
> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>
> Start your own free groups and site with
> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>
> Host your own online groups site with
> GroupServer http://groupserver.org

Looking for NZ government Open Data publishing standards/procedures From: Alison Stringer Date: Jan 27 09:30 NZDT

Hi Jeff

I work for the NZ Open Goverment Data and Information Secretariat. We are
currently preparing guidance and advice to assist NZ Public Sector agencies
release their high value, non-personal data for reuse.

My colleague Keitha Booth and I are happy to discuss the New Zealand Open
Goverment Data and Information work programme. Please contact Keitha or on
[last name] [first initial] [at] linz.govt.nz

Regards
Alison Stringer

PS: Happy New Year Ninjas! I'm working with Keitha 0.5 FTE this year. Looking
forward to working with you all.
A

Looking for NZ government Open Data publishing standards/procedures From: Jeff Rothenberg Date: Jan 26 11:37 NZDT

Thanks!  I'll digest the Declaration and will then contact you about
following-up.

Jeff


On Jan 25, 2012, at 1:06 PM, Nadia Webster wrote:

> Hi Jeff
>
> I am currently working on developing a process and guidance for the New
Zealand Department of Internal Affairs on the prioritisation and release of
high value public data for reuse, in accordance with the Declaration on Open
and Transparent Government
http://www.ict.govt.nz/programme/opening-government-data-and-information/open-and-transparent-government

Rest of post

>
> You can contact me: [my first name].[my last name][at]dia.govt.nz
>
> Nadia
> -----------------------------------------
> Full text of this topic in The Open Government Ninjas:
> http://groups.open.org.nz/r/topic/3WBpxYCMtIeyLFLWSSCvBA
>
> To leave The Open Government Ninjas, email
> <email obscured>?Subject=unsubscribe
>
> Start your own free groups and site with
> OnlineGroups.Net http://onlinegroups.net
>
> Host your own online groups site with
> GroupServer http://groupserver.org

Looking for NZ government Open Data publishing standards/procedures From: Jeff Rothenberg Date: Jan 26 11:36 NZDT

Thanks!  I'll check out the DANS group and will try to set something up to talk
with you about
science data issues next week.

Jeff

On Jan 24, 2012, at 8:37 PM, David Medyckyj-Scott wrote:

> Hi Jeff,
>
> Have you talked to the people at the Data Archiving and Networked Services
(DANS) in the Netherlands? They would provide some useful input I am sure.
>
> Happy to talk to you offline about the issues, from a science data providers
viewpoint, of working within the NZ content.

Rest of post

>
> Regards
>
> David
>
> __________________________________________________________________
>
> Dr David Medyckyj-Scott
> Team Manager - Informatics
> Landcare Research - Manaaki Whenua
> New Zealand
>
> tel: 00 64 (0)6 353 4979
> email: <email obscured>
> web: http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/
> Team blog: http://wiki.zen.landcareresearch.co.nz/informatics/
> __________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <email obscured> <email obscured>] On
Behalf Of Jeff Rothenberg
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 January 2012 1:41 p.m.
> To: <email obscured>
> Cc: Jeff Rothenberg
> Subject: [ninjas] Looking for NZ government Open Data publishing
standards/procedures
>
> Dear Ninjas,
>
> I am working on a small project for a Dutch agency that is interested in
improving the publication
> and distribution of open data by the Dutch government.  The stated goal of
this project is to:
>
>        Improve the supply and distribution process of government open data in
The Netherlands
>
> The focus of the project is on the use of publication formats, data and
metadata formats, procedures,
> and policies that can make government data and publications easier to
discover, access, acquire,
> and utilize for the full range of purposes to which they can be put.  The
intended users of such data
> include not just end-users (citizens, organizations, and other government
agencies) but also various
> intermediate entities, such as developers of applications or online databases
that repackage, collate,
> integrate, process, or republish such data for end-users.
>
> I have been asked to perform a small number of small-scale international case
studies looking for ways
> that other governments are approaching this issue.  In particular, I am
looking at four English-speaking
> cases: the U.K. the U.S., Canada, and New Zealand.
>
> I am therefore looking for relevant agencies, programs, projects, offices,
groups, or individuals who
> are engaged in the production, publication, and management of open data in
New Zealand, as well
> as pointers to any specific standards and policies, approaches, or efforts
that might provide useful
> insights into the problem and/or models for the Dutch effort.  Similar
pointers to counterparts in the
> U.K., Canada, or the U.S. would also be helpful, if you happen to know of
any.
>
> I would greatly appreciate any individual or agency contacts, websites, issue
papers, policy documents,
> or standards specifications you can suggest that might help me understand
what is being done in New
> Zealand (and elsewhere) along these lines.
>
>
> Appreciatively,
>
> Jeff Rothenberg
> Information Science Consultant
> www.JeffRothenberg.org
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
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